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	<title>Comments on: Open Sourcing and Improving the Citizen&#8217;s Briefing Book</title>
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		<title>By: lhl</title>
		<link>http://randomfoo.net/2009/01/18/open-sourcing-and-improving-the-citizens-briefing-book/comment-page-1#comment-446</link>
		<dc:creator>lhl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randomfoo.net/?p=5183#comment-446</guid>
		<description>Hey Eric, I don&#039;t think know anything about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/mail-developers.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WH.gov web team&lt;/a&gt;, but on the web side, I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a strong ideological bent - WH.gov is running Apache, and although it&#039;s all pre-baked so there&#039;s not much more info, following along to USA.gov shows their site running Apache 2 w/ a mix of languages (some PHP, as well as some ancient Netscape Enterprise served Java - oh, they&#039;re using &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.usa.gov/roller/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Roller to power blogs.usa.gov&lt;/a&gt;).  Now, I don&#039;t much care about open sourcing code just for the heck of it - that portal code is probably half proprietary, mega-crusty and really wouldn&#039;t help improve access and would just be a waste of resources, but for a project like developing new (completely as of yet non-existent) tools for direct democracy?  That&#039;d be more interesting.  I can&#039;t really fault the web teams for not doing anything like that - certainly no administration has looked to actively push the boundaries there before the Obama Administration (which it seems has tried more with things in the past couple months on Change.gov than I&#039;ve seen in the past 8 years)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;em&gt;&quot;How about we both move to DC and get involved in this scene and start pushing?&quot;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ahh youthful enthusiasm.  They have my number (and yours too I&#039;m assuming) but life goes on - I&#039;m pretty much booked out for at least the next few months and am currently focusing on a new small biz...  I&#039;ve said in the past that if called, I&#039;d serve, but honestly, unless it was something that was directly impactful and where I&#039;d have the resources and influence to be able execute, it&#039;d probably be a waste of time and energy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t think you could be that effective pushing an agenda (externally or internally) that doesn&#039;t want to be pushed, but I&#039;m working under the assumption that whether it&#039;s Kundra or someone else (but particularly if it&#039;s Kundra) as CTO, that they&#039;ll &quot;get it&quot; and be able to tap into some pretty excited people at the OMB (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.egov.gov/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;E-Gov&lt;/a&gt;) or GSA (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usa.gov/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;USA.gov&lt;/a&gt;) -- see, I don&#039;t even know anything about the federal level bureaucracy (they have &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-newmark/federal-webmasters-move-a_b_154047.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;semi-regular pow-wows apparently&lt;/a&gt;, but I wouldn&#039;t exactly call it a &quot;scene&quot;).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Who knows, maybe the WH web team has some expertise in building and scaling complex social web apps, but regardless if they opened up a new high-profile project like a version of the Briefing Book, I suspect they&#039;d get help from a lot of people and make a lot more progress.  Even if I might not drop everything to go work on it, I&#039;d do something like write some data exporter scripts for them, which probably wouldn&#039;t take more than an hour or two to do.  After I (or any third party, which is the important thing) were motivated, could write all kinds of term-extraction and relatedness algorithms on the textual content or relatedness/recommendations based on user votes...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course, there&#039;s a lot of infrastructure and cat wrangling involved in fostering a working community for that sort of thing, and while there are challenges in striking the right tone and making it really effective, I think the bar is set pretty low at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Eric, I don&#39;t think know anything about the <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/mail-developers.html" rel="nofollow">WH.gov web team</a>, but on the web side, I don&#39;t think there&#39;s a strong ideological bent &#8211; WH.gov is running Apache, and although it&#39;s all pre-baked so there&#39;s not much more info, following along to USA.gov shows their site running Apache 2 w/ a mix of languages (some PHP, as well as some ancient Netscape Enterprise served Java &#8211; oh, they&#39;re using <a href="http://blog.usa.gov/roller/" rel="nofollow">Roller to power blogs.usa.gov</a>).  Now, I don&#39;t much care about open sourcing code just for the heck of it &#8211; that portal code is probably half proprietary, mega-crusty and really wouldn&#39;t help improve access and would just be a waste of resources, but for a project like developing new (completely as of yet non-existent) tools for direct democracy?  That&#39;d be more interesting.  I can&#39;t really fault the web teams for not doing anything like that &#8211; certainly no administration has looked to actively push the boundaries there before the Obama Administration (which it seems has tried more with things in the past couple months on Change.gov than I&#39;ve seen in the past 8 years)</p>
<p><em>&#8220;How about we both move to DC and get involved in this scene and start pushing?&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Ahh youthful enthusiasm.  They have my number (and yours too I&#39;m assuming) but life goes on &#8211; I&#39;m pretty much booked out for at least the next few months and am currently focusing on a new small biz&#8230;  I&#39;ve said in the past that if called, I&#39;d serve, but honestly, unless it was something that was directly impactful and where I&#39;d have the resources and influence to be able execute, it&#39;d probably be a waste of time and energy.</p>
<p>I don&#39;t think you could be that effective pushing an agenda (externally or internally) that doesn&#39;t want to be pushed, but I&#39;m working under the assumption that whether it&#39;s Kundra or someone else (but particularly if it&#39;s Kundra) as CTO, that they&#39;ll &#8220;get it&#8221; and be able to tap into some pretty excited people at the OMB (<a href="http://www.egov.gov/" rel="nofollow">E-Gov</a>) or GSA (<a href="http://www.usa.gov/" rel="nofollow">USA.gov</a>) &#8212; see, I don&#39;t even know anything about the federal level bureaucracy (they have <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-newmark/federal-webmasters-move-a_b_154047.html" rel="nofollow">semi-regular pow-wows apparently</a>, but I wouldn&#39;t exactly call it a &#8220;scene&#8221;).</p>
<p>Who knows, maybe the WH web team has some expertise in building and scaling complex social web apps, but regardless if they opened up a new high-profile project like a version of the Briefing Book, I suspect they&#39;d get help from a lot of people and make a lot more progress.  Even if I might not drop everything to go work on it, I&#39;d do something like write some data exporter scripts for them, which probably wouldn&#39;t take more than an hour or two to do.  After I (or any third party, which is the important thing) were motivated, could write all kinds of term-extraction and relatedness algorithms on the textual content or relatedness/recommendations based on user votes&#8230;</p>
<p>Of course, there&#39;s a lot of infrastructure and cat wrangling involved in fostering a working community for that sort of thing, and while there are challenges in striking the right tone and making it really effective, I think the bar is set pretty low at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: lhl</title>
		<link>http://randomfoo.net/2009/01/18/open-sourcing-and-improving-the-citizens-briefing-book/comment-page-1#comment-376</link>
		<dc:creator>lhl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randomfoo.net/?p=5183#comment-376</guid>
		<description>Hey Eric, I don&#039;t think know anything about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/mail-developers.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WH.gov web team&lt;/a&gt;, but on the web side, I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a strong ideological bent - WH.gov is running Apache, and although it&#039;s all pre-baked so there&#039;s not much more info, following along to USA.gov shows their site running Apache 2 w/ a mix of languages (some PHP, as well as some ancient Netscape Enterprise served Java - oh, they&#039;re using &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.usa.gov/roller/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Roller to power blogs.usa.gov&lt;/a&gt;).  Now, I don&#039;t much care about open sourcing code just for the heck of it - that portal code is probably half proprietary, mega-crusty and really wouldn&#039;t help improve access and would just be a waste of resources, but for a project like developing new (completely as of yet non-existent) tools for direct democracy?  That&#039;d be more interesting.  I can&#039;t really fault the web teams for not doing anything like that - certainly no administration has looked to actively push the boundaries there before the Obama Administration (which it seems has tried more with things in the past couple months on Change.gov than I&#039;ve seen in the past 8 years)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;em&gt;&quot;How about we both move to DC and get involved in this scene and start pushing?&quot;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ahh youthful enthusiasm.  They have my number (and yours too I&#039;m assuming) but life goes on - I&#039;m pretty much booked out for at least the next few months and am currently focusing on a new small biz...  I&#039;ve said in the past that if called, I&#039;d serve, but honestly, unless it was something that was directly impactful and where I&#039;d have the resources and influence to be able execute, it&#039;d probably be a waste of time and energy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t think you could be that effective pushing an agenda (externally or internally) that doesn&#039;t want to be pushed, but I&#039;m working under the assumption that whether it&#039;s Kundra or someone else (but particularly if it&#039;s Kundra) as CTO, that they&#039;ll &quot;get it&quot; and be able to tap into some pretty excited people at the OMB (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.egov.gov/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;E-Gov&lt;/a&gt;) or GSA (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usa.gov/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;USA.gov&lt;/a&gt;) -- see, I don&#039;t even know anything about the federal level bureaucracy (they have &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-newmark/federal-webmasters-move-a_b_154047.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;semi-regular pow-wows apparently&lt;/a&gt;, but I wouldn&#039;t exactly call it a &quot;scene&quot;).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Who knows, maybe the WH web team has some expertise in building and scaling complex social web apps, but regardless if they opened up a new high-profile project like a version of the Briefing Book, I suspect they&#039;d get help from a lot of people and make a lot more progress.  Even if I might not drop everything to go work on it, I&#039;d do something like write some data exporter scripts for them, which probably wouldn&#039;t take more than an hour or two to do.  After I (or any third party, which is the important thing) were motivated, could write all kinds of term-extraction and relatedness algorithms on the textual content or relatedness/recommendations based on user votes...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course, there&#039;s a lot of infrastructure and cat wrangling involved in fostering a working community for that sort of thing, and while there are challenges in striking the right tone and making it really effective, I think the bar is set pretty low at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Eric, I don&#39;t think know anything about the <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/mail-developers.html" rel="nofollow">WH.gov web team</a>, but on the web side, I don&#39;t think there&#39;s a strong ideological bent &#8211; WH.gov is running Apache, and although it&#39;s all pre-baked so there&#39;s not much more info, following along to USA.gov shows their site running Apache 2 w/ a mix of languages (some PHP, as well as some ancient Netscape Enterprise served Java &#8211; oh, they&#39;re using <a href="http://blog.usa.gov/roller/" rel="nofollow">Roller to power blogs.usa.gov</a>).  Now, I don&#39;t much care about open sourcing code just for the heck of it &#8211; that portal code is probably half proprietary, mega-crusty and really wouldn&#39;t help improve access and would just be a waste of resources, but for a project like developing new (completely as of yet non-existent) tools for direct democracy?  That&#39;d be more interesting.  I can&#39;t really fault the web teams for not doing anything like that &#8211; certainly no administration has looked to actively push the boundaries there before the Obama Administration (which it seems has tried more with things in the past couple months on Change.gov than I&#39;ve seen in the past 8 years)</p>
<p><em>&#8220;How about we both move to DC and get involved in this scene and start pushing?&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Ahh youthful enthusiasm.  They have my number (and yours too I&#39;m assuming) but life goes on &#8211; I&#39;m pretty much booked out for at least the next few months and am currently focusing on a new small biz&#8230;  I&#39;ve said in the past that if called, I&#39;d serve, but honestly, unless it was something that was directly impactful and where I&#39;d have the resources and influence to be able execute, it&#39;d probably be a waste of time and energy.</p>
<p>I don&#39;t think you could be that effective pushing an agenda (externally or internally) that doesn&#39;t want to be pushed, but I&#39;m working under the assumption that whether it&#39;s Kundra or someone else (but particularly if it&#39;s Kundra) as CTO, that they&#39;ll &#8220;get it&#8221; and be able to tap into some pretty excited people at the OMB (<a href="http://www.egov.gov/" rel="nofollow">E-Gov</a>) or GSA (<a href="http://www.usa.gov/" rel="nofollow">USA.gov</a>) &#8212; see, I don&#39;t even know anything about the federal level bureaucracy (they have <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-newmark/federal-webmasters-move-a_b_154047.html" rel="nofollow">semi-regular pow-wows apparently</a>, but I wouldn&#39;t exactly call it a &#8220;scene&#8221;).</p>
<p>Who knows, maybe the WH web team has some expertise in building and scaling complex social web apps, but regardless if they opened up a new high-profile project like a version of the Briefing Book, I suspect they&#39;d get help from a lot of people and make a lot more progress.  Even if I might not drop everything to go work on it, I&#39;d do something like write some data exporter scripts for them, which probably wouldn&#39;t take more than an hour or two to do.  After I (or any third party, which is the important thing) were motivated, could write all kinds of term-extraction and relatedness algorithms on the textual content or relatedness/recommendations based on user votes&#8230;</p>
<p>Of course, there&#39;s a lot of infrastructure and cat wrangling involved in fostering a working community for that sort of thing, and while there are challenges in striking the right tone and making it really effective, I think the bar is set pretty low at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: lhl</title>
		<link>http://randomfoo.net/2009/01/18/open-sourcing-and-improving-the-citizens-briefing-book/comment-page-1#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>lhl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randomfoo.net/?p=5183#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Hey Eric, I don&#039;t think know anything about the prior WH.gov web team, but on the web side, I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a strong ideological bent - WH.gov is running Apache, and although it&#039;s all pre-baked so there&#039;s not much more info, following along to USA.gov shows their site running Apache 2 w/ a mix of languages (some PHP, as well as some ancient Netscape Enterprise served Java - oh, they&#039;re using Roller to power blogs.usa.gov).  Now, I don&#039;t much care about open sourcing code just for the heck of it - that portal code is probably half proprietary, mega-crusty and really wouldn&#039;t help improve access and would just be a waste of resources, but for a project like developing new (completely as of yet non-existent) tools for direct democracy?  That&#039;d be more interesting.  I can&#039;t really fault the web teams for not doing anything like that - certainly no administration has looked to actively push the boundaries there before the Obama Administration (which it seems has tried more with things in the past couple months on Change.gov than I&#039;ve seen in the past 8 years)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;How about we both move to DC and get involved in this scene and start pushing?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ahh youthful enthusiasm.  I dropped a line so they have my number (and yours too I&#039;m assuming) but life goes on - I&#039;m pretty much booked out for at least the next few months and am currently focusing on a new small biz...  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That being said, I&#039;m working under the assumption that whether it&#039;s Kundra or someone else (but particularly if it&#039;s Kundra) as CTO, that they&#039;ll &quot;get it&quot; and be able to tap into some pretty excited people at the OMB (E-Gov) or GSA (USA.gov) -- see, I don&#039;t even know anything about the federal level bureaucracy (they have &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-newmark/federal-webmasters-move-a_b_154047.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;semi-regular pow-wows apparently&lt;/a&gt;, but I wouldn&#039;t exactly call it a &quot;scene&quot;).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Who knows, maybe the WH web team has some expertise in building and scaling complex social web apps, but regardless if they opened up a new high-profile project like a version of the Change Book, I suspect they&#039;d get help from a lot of people and make a lot more progress.  Even if I might not drop everything to go work on it, I&#039;d do something like write some data exporter scripts for them, which probably wouldn&#039;t take more than an hour or two to do.  After I (or any third party, which is the important thing) were motivated, could write all kinds of term-extraction and relatedness algorithms on the textual content or relatedness/recommendations based on user votes...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course, there&#039;s a lot of infrastructure and cat wrangling involved in fostering a working community for that sort of thing, and while there are challenges in striking the right tone and making it really effective, I think the bar is set pretty low at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Eric, I don&#39;t think know anything about the prior WH.gov web team, but on the web side, I don&#39;t think there&#39;s a strong ideological bent &#8211; WH.gov is running Apache, and although it&#39;s all pre-baked so there&#39;s not much more info, following along to USA.gov shows their site running Apache 2 w/ a mix of languages (some PHP, as well as some ancient Netscape Enterprise served Java &#8211; oh, they&#39;re using Roller to power blogs.usa.gov).  Now, I don&#39;t much care about open sourcing code just for the heck of it &#8211; that portal code is probably half proprietary, mega-crusty and really wouldn&#39;t help improve access and would just be a waste of resources, but for a project like developing new (completely as of yet non-existent) tools for direct democracy?  That&#39;d be more interesting.  I can&#39;t really fault the web teams for not doing anything like that &#8211; certainly no administration has looked to actively push the boundaries there before the Obama Administration (which it seems has tried more with things in the past couple months on Change.gov than I&#39;ve seen in the past 8 years)</p>
<p>&#8220;How about we both move to DC and get involved in this scene and start pushing?&#8221;</p>
<p>Ahh youthful enthusiasm.  I dropped a line so they have my number (and yours too I&#39;m assuming) but life goes on &#8211; I&#39;m pretty much booked out for at least the next few months and am currently focusing on a new small biz&#8230;  </p>
<p>That being said, I&#39;m working under the assumption that whether it&#39;s Kundra or someone else (but particularly if it&#39;s Kundra) as CTO, that they&#39;ll &#8220;get it&#8221; and be able to tap into some pretty excited people at the OMB (E-Gov) or GSA (USA.gov) &#8212; see, I don&#39;t even know anything about the federal level bureaucracy (they have <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-newmark/federal-webmasters-move-a_b_154047.html" rel="nofollow">semi-regular pow-wows apparently</a>, but I wouldn&#39;t exactly call it a &#8220;scene&#8221;).</p>
<p>Who knows, maybe the WH web team has some expertise in building and scaling complex social web apps, but regardless if they opened up a new high-profile project like a version of the Change Book, I suspect they&#39;d get help from a lot of people and make a lot more progress.  Even if I might not drop everything to go work on it, I&#39;d do something like write some data exporter scripts for them, which probably wouldn&#39;t take more than an hour or two to do.  After I (or any third party, which is the important thing) were motivated, could write all kinds of term-extraction and relatedness algorithms on the textual content or relatedness/recommendations based on user votes&#8230;</p>
<p>Of course, there&#39;s a lot of infrastructure and cat wrangling involved in fostering a working community for that sort of thing, and while there are challenges in striking the right tone and making it really effective, I think the bar is set pretty low at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Mill</title>
		<link>http://randomfoo.net/2009/01/18/open-sourcing-and-improving-the-citizens-briefing-book/comment-page-1#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Mill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randomfoo.net/?p=5183#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Awesome -- entirely agree.  This administration has the potential to be the first to eschew the mentality that proprietary software necessarily equals greater security and reliability.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;How about we both move to DC and get involved in this scene and start pushing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome &#8212; entirely agree.  This administration has the potential to be the first to eschew the mentality that proprietary software necessarily equals greater security and reliability.  </p>
<p>How about we both move to DC and get involved in this scene and start pushing?</p>
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